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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 2:36:43 GMT
Okay...that was a pretty good start.
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Post by chap22 on Dec 9, 2019 4:11:56 GMT
Okay...that was a pretty good start. Yep. Loved the opening cameos. Of COURSE they got Arliss to show up, what else is that guy doing? Love how close they're hewing to the comics. Not just the stuff we knew, like the Monitor, Anti-Monitor, Harbinger, Pariah, and antimatter and red skies, but other details like shadow-demons and the cosmic tuning forks too. I liked the Lois & Clark/Lara & Jor-El parallel, and how L & C never even hesitated. Thought that was a nice touch. The Supergirl/Superman convo scene was really well done. While I've come to admit it's better than I used to give it credit for, that show is still largely terrible, but Benoist is just great. I really don't know that I could imagine a better Kara. As for the big death, I mean it was a pretty good one as far as hero deaths go, but it was nowhere near good enough for that character or this story, so there's no way I'm buying that that's his final fate (in part 1, no less) in this deal. Plus, I still firmly believe he and Felicity are getting the E2 Supes & Lois treatment from the comics when this is all over. Best guess for now: Earth-16 Old Man Ollie got a glimpse from talking to Sara of a world where he was happy and figured that’s a world worth sacrificing for (because if that doesn’t come back in a big way down the road, then it was a large, pointless waste of time in this ep), so he comes back/over to take our Ollie’s place, thus fulfilling the Monitor’s prophecy and allowing our Ollie to live (somehow...timey-wimey stuff or Monitor magic or some such) and go off with Felicity into retirement.
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Post by liama on Dec 9, 2019 10:16:43 GMT
My machine is setup to record it. This is the first crossover I am excited for.
Be the first time I watch Supergirl.
First time I watched Supergirl was Kevin Smith's first directed episode. As a bonus it had Rusty Venture in it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 12:09:14 GMT
Okay...that was a pretty good start. The Supergirl/Superman convo scene was really well done. While I've come to admit it's better than I used to give it credit for, that show is still largely terrible, but Benoist is just great. I really don't know that I could imagine a better Kara. As for the big death, I mean it was a pretty good one as far as hero deaths go, but it was nowhere near good enough for that character or this story, so there's no way I'm buying that that's his final fate (in part 1, no less) in this deal. Plus, I still firmly believe he and Felicity are getting the E2 Supes & Lois treatment from the comics when this is all over. Best guess for now: Earth-16 Old Man Ollie got a glimpse from talking to Sara of a world where he was happy and figured that’s a world worth sacrificing for (because if that doesn’t come back in a big way down the road, then it was a large, pointless waste of time in this ep), so he comes back/over to take our Ollie’s place, thus fulfilling the Monitor’s prophecy and allowing our Ollie to live (somehow...timey-wimey stuff or Monitor magic or some such) and go off with Felicity into retirement. I actually found the Kara/Kal-El conversation to be one of the weaker parts of the episode (along with Kal's powers giving out before Kara's as they re-energized the fork.) I do agree it is probably not the last we have seen of Ollie.
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Post by chap22 on Dec 9, 2019 14:16:37 GMT
The Supergirl/Superman convo scene was really well done. While I've come to admit it's better than I used to give it credit for, that show is still largely terrible, but Benoist is just great. I really don't know that I could imagine a better Kara. As for the big death, I mean it was a pretty good one as far as hero deaths go, but it was nowhere near good enough for that character or this story, so there's no way I'm buying that that's his final fate (in part 1, no less) in this deal. Plus, I still firmly believe he and Felicity are getting the E2 Supes & Lois treatment from the comics when this is all over. Best guess for now: Earth-16 Old Man Ollie got a glimpse from talking to Sara of a world where he was happy and figured that’s a world worth sacrificing for (because if that doesn’t come back in a big way down the road, then it was a large, pointless waste of time in this ep), so he comes back/over to take our Ollie’s place, thus fulfilling the Monitor’s prophecy and allowing our Ollie to live (somehow...timey-wimey stuff or Monitor magic or some such) and go off with Felicity into retirement. I actually found the Kara/Kal-El conversation to be one of the weaker parts of the episode (along with Kal's powers giving out before Kara's as they re-energized the fork.) I do agree it is probably not the last we have seen of Ollie. Well, just for context (since you haven’t watched SG before), they’ve gone out of their way to establish that she’s actually more powerful than Kal, which also runs in line with what they did in the comics when Loeb reintroduced her.
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Post by achilles on Dec 9, 2019 15:07:41 GMT
The Supergirl/Superman convo scene was really well done. While I've come to admit it's better than I used to give it credit for, that show is still largely terrible, but Benoist is just great. I really don't know that I could imagine a better Kara. As for the big death, I mean it was a pretty good one as far as hero deaths go, but it was nowhere near good enough for that character or this story, so there's no way I'm buying that that's his final fate (in part 1, no less) in this deal. Plus, I still firmly believe he and Felicity are getting the E2 Supes & Lois treatment from the comics when this is all over. Best guess for now: Earth-16 Old Man Ollie got a glimpse from talking to Sara of a world where he was happy and figured that’s a world worth sacrificing for (because if that doesn’t come back in a big way down the road, then it was a large, pointless waste of time in this ep), so he comes back/over to take our Ollie’s place, thus fulfilling the Monitor’s prophecy and allowing our Ollie to live (somehow...timey-wimey stuff or Monitor magic or some such) and go off with Felicity into retirement. I actually found the Kara/Kal-El conversation to be one of the weaker parts of the episode (along with Kal's powers giving out before Kara's as they re-energized the fork.) I do agree it is probably not the last we have seen of Ollie. I agree about the SM/SG scenes, but I'd add that having SG be the one to comfort SM...goes against everything we know about them from the comics yet again, and undermines SM himself just as they head into HIS series, which figures to be going after SG's ends. Smart move WB. But that's really the only criticism I have of the show, all the rest was varying shades of great. No real complaints with the acting, the fan service was great, (though damn, this NEEDS Shaq and Halle Berry...AND Ryan Reynolds and a CG suit... ). {Spoiler} As for Ollie, while the death scene was one I saw from an 80s version of the Robin Hood story, it remains great to this day, when its updated well, as this one was. Obviously, considering the show still has a few more episodes, Ollie would seem to...get better somehow. But if that does somehow turn out to be it for him, it was a fine exit.
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Post by achilles on Dec 9, 2019 15:11:00 GMT
I actually found the Kara/Kal-El conversation to be one of the weaker parts of the episode (along with Kal's powers giving out before Kara's as they re-energized the fork.) I do agree it is probably not the last we have seen of Ollie. Well, just for context (since you haven’t watched SG before), they’ve gone out of their way to establish that she’s actually more powerful than Kal, which also runs in line with what they did in the comics when Loeb reintroduced her. Eh, that's unclear. The only thing they really ever said about it on the show was that SG was faster because she's smaller, but they said nothing about who was overall stronger. They have had her win a fight with him, and now this though, which as I said seems dumb when his show is coming, and hers will leave in probably another couple of years. And the comics have at times kind of sort of walked that back since her reintroduction.
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Post by chap22 on Dec 9, 2019 15:47:25 GMT
Well, just for context (since you haven’t watched SG before), they’ve gone out of their way to establish that she’s actually more powerful than Kal, which also runs in line with what they did in the comics when Loeb reintroduced her. Eh, that's unclear. The only thing they really ever said about it on the show was that SG was faster because she's smaller, but they said nothing about who was overall stronger. They have had her win a fight with him, and now this though, which as I said seems dumb when his show is coming, and hers will leave in probably another couple of years. And the comics have at times kind of sort of walked that back since her reintroduction. Dude, Kal himself has said at least twice that I remember (maybe more) that she's stronger than him on the show. Now whether he means physically or emotionally may be a matter for debate, but either way, that takes care of either her being the one to comfort him (which regardless I think you're just nitpicking...the story they've decided to tell pretty clearly justifies that whole convo...Kal tried to give up heroing, went off to have a family, is a brand-new dad who may have just lost his son, etc...that scene rang plenty true to me in context of what they've done so far and doesn't weaken him for a later show at all; if anything it adds depth to the character of a omni-powerful hero who you know is always going to ultimately win any fight he's in; it also falls in line in with the version we saw in what has always been widely viewed as the best Superman movie, Superman 2, which I'm sure you have no problems with there but for some reason feel the need to pick apart here...but I digress) or it takes care of him running out of juice faster than her (which also could be justified by him living under a red sun for the past 9 months or so while having a baby and not being as fully charged yet as Kara is since she's been on Earth that whole time.
tl;dr there are plenty of easy and obvious explanations for your complaints that either were explicitly touched on in the show or can be readily inferred from other explicit points in the show that shouldn't require spoon-feeding.
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Post by achilles on Dec 9, 2019 16:47:47 GMT
Eh, that's unclear. The only thing they really ever said about it on the show was that SG was faster because she's smaller, but they said nothing about who was overall stronger. They have had her win a fight with him, and now this though, which as I said seems dumb when his show is coming, and hers will leave in probably another couple of years. And the comics have at times kind of sort of walked that back since her reintroduction. Dude, Kal himself has said at least twice that I remember (maybe more) that she's stronger than him on the show. Now whether he means physically or emotionally may be a matter for debate, but either way, that takes care of either her being the one to comfort him (which regardless I think you're just nitpicking...the story they've decided to tell pretty clearly justifies that whole convo...Kal tried to give up heroing, went off to have a family, is a brand-new dad who may have just lost his son, etc...that scene rang plenty true to me in context of what they've done so far and doesn't weaken him for a later show at all; if anything it adds depth to the character of a omni-powerful hero who you know is always going to ultimately win any fight he's in; it also falls in line in with the version we saw in what has always been widely viewed as the best Superman movie, Superman 2, which I'm sure you have no problems with there but for some reason feel the need to pick apart here...but I digress) or it takes care of him running out of juice faster than her (which also could be justified by him living under a red sun for the past 9 months or so while having a baby and not being as fully charged yet as Kara is since she's been on Earth that whole time.
tl;dr there are plenty of easy and obvious explanations for your complaints that either were explicitly touched on in the show or can be readily inferred from other explicit points in the show that shouldn't require spoon-feeding.
He was going for emotionally, as in the "you're a pillar of strength" sort of thing. And I just think it odd to run down Superman just before his show gets started. Other than that, I quite liked the show. Might even have been the best so far for the Arrowverse. Have to give that last a bit of a think.
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Post by achilles on Dec 9, 2019 17:32:03 GMT
As a side note, I guess Jimmy's dead, huh? I mean he may or may not have gotten onto a rescue ship, but let's see, less than half of SG's Earth got out, and they didn't specifically mention him so...
Also, damn, Cat's probably also dead. And Lena is now penniless, along with everyone else from that Earth. And the main Earth's population suddenly got another few billion, plus sundry aliens. And all survivors will be terribly traumatized, and most will have lost family and friends. None of them will be working, so they'll all have to get jobs...somewhere. Interesting implications.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 17:53:52 GMT
I actually found the Kara/Kal-El conversation to be one of the weaker parts of the episode (along with Kal's powers giving out before Kara's as they re-energized the fork.) I do agree it is probably not the last we have seen of Ollie. Well, just for context (since you haven’t watched SG before), they’ve gone out of their way to establish that she’s actually more powerful than Kal, which also runs in line with what they did in the comics when Loeb reintroduced her. Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by chap22 on Dec 9, 2019 18:04:41 GMT
As a side note, I guess Jimmy's dead, huh? I mean he may or may not have gotten onto a rescue ship, but let's see, less than half of SG's Earth got out, and they didn't specifically mention him so... Also, damn, Cat's probably also dead. And Lena is now penniless, along with everyone else from that Earth. And the main Earth's population suddenly got another few billion, plus sundry aliens. And all survivors will be terribly traumatized, and most will have lost family and friends. None of them will be working, so they'll all have to get jobs...somewhere. Interesting implications.
Have you read/do you remember the details from reading COIE? At some point before this is over, all the remaining Earths are going to (most likely) be merged into one, with just one version of each person with a new, neat history and status quo with all of that stuff kinda glossed over -- memories fudged, bank accounts replenished, etc. It'll be a big reset.
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Post by chap22 on Dec 9, 2019 18:06:06 GMT
Dude, Kal himself has said at least twice that I remember (maybe more) that she's stronger than him on the show. Now whether he means physically or emotionally may be a matter for debate, but either way, that takes care of either her being the one to comfort him (which regardless I think you're just nitpicking...the story they've decided to tell pretty clearly justifies that whole convo...Kal tried to give up heroing, went off to have a family, is a brand-new dad who may have just lost his son, etc...that scene rang plenty true to me in context of what they've done so far and doesn't weaken him for a later show at all; if anything it adds depth to the character of a omni-powerful hero who you know is always going to ultimately win any fight he's in; it also falls in line in with the version we saw in what has always been widely viewed as the best Superman movie, Superman 2, which I'm sure you have no problems with there but for some reason feel the need to pick apart here...but I digress) or it takes care of him running out of juice faster than her (which also could be justified by him living under a red sun for the past 9 months or so while having a baby and not being as fully charged yet as Kara is since she's been on Earth that whole time.
tl;dr there are plenty of easy and obvious explanations for your complaints that either were explicitly touched on in the show or can be readily inferred from other explicit points in the show that shouldn't require spoon-feeding.
He was going for emotionally, as in the "you're a pillar of strength" sort of thing. And I just think it odd to run down Superman just before his show gets started. Other than that, I quite liked the show. Might even have been the best so far for the Arrowverse. Have to give that last a bit of a think.
I guess I just don't see them giving him an emotional conflict and something internal to overcome as "running him down". Especially since even if it is, you have 4 more episodes of this to build him back up.
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Post by achilles on Dec 9, 2019 18:27:29 GMT
As a side note, I guess Jimmy's dead, huh? I mean he may or may not have gotten onto a rescue ship, but let's see, less than half of SG's Earth got out, and they didn't specifically mention him so... Also, damn, Cat's probably also dead. And Lena is now penniless, along with everyone else from that Earth. And the main Earth's population suddenly got another few billion, plus sundry aliens. And all survivors will be terribly traumatized, and most will have lost family and friends. None of them will be working, so they'll all have to get jobs...somewhere. Interesting implications.
Have you read/do you remember the details from reading COIE? At some point before this is over, all the remaining Earths are going to (most likely) be merged into one, with just one version of each person with a new, neat history and status quo with all of that stuff kinda glossed over -- memories fudged, bank accounts replenished, etc. It'll be a big reset.
Maybe. Then again, SG and Flash did actually die in the comic, and stayed dead for a good bit. So already there are plenty of differences. But that in itself implies that a LOT of people got killed, so it still a pretty good kind of horror. I do recall that select people did recall it all, for a time at least. Long enough to mourn. It would be more interesting IMO to go for it.
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Post by achilles on Dec 9, 2019 18:34:01 GMT
He was going for emotionally, as in the "you're a pillar of strength" sort of thing. And I just think it odd to run down Superman just before his show gets started. Other than that, I quite liked the show. Might even have been the best so far for the Arrowverse. Have to give that last a bit of a think.
I guess I just don't see them giving him an emotional conflict and something internal to overcome as "running him down". Especially since even if it is, you have 4 more episodes of this to build him back up.
Well, there's that, and for what it's worth I think they will build him back, given the prominence of the character in various forms in this. What I saw by that scene as running him down was that it was SG, who after all lost just as much as he did, who had to pick him up. First of all, she's not that character. If anything, given the comic book history, it'd be HER needing the comforting. But beyond that, and much more important, Superman is one of two characters in the DCU that I get the feeling in universe, he's the guy who other heroes and the populace would be comforted by his very presence, (the other being the JSA's Alan Scott). Though of course you'd be pretty glad to have Wonder Woman or Batman around too. Point is though to me, SM is someone who is just the calming presence when everything goes to pot, no matter how he feels inside. Interestingly, Tyler H gave that sort of vibe to me in his few appearances so far.
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