|
|
Post by chap22 on Apr 25, 2019 0:17:52 GMT
 Well...he's emphasizing as much as he can. Dear Mr. King, with all all due respect: No. sincerely, chap22 |
|
|
|
Post by SporkBot on Apr 25, 2019 1:14:45 GMT
Well...he's emphasizing as much as he can. I REad it so you don't have to. I am 100% blaming this on dan didiot after he said he was going to fuck up wally west instead of nightwing at that con. Didn't King basically say this was all him, though? Rationally speaking, you could at most blame Didio for fostering an environment that leaves certain characters left in the cold or screwed up because he doesn't care about them. The only alternative is that Didio made the call, and ordered King to take the fall in advance to save face. I don't think much of Didio's spinal integrity, so tossing blame for his mistakes to someone else isn't out of the question, but King was in the CIA...no way some doughy executive twit is gonna intimidate him. Let's say that there will be no fake-out, no foreseeable retcon to repair this damage to Wally's character, and it was basically all King's idea. Going by what he's previously said about this story, I can kind of see his reasoning here. He wants this to make an impact, get people taking, even if it ruffles a few feathers. Americans tend to hold soldiers on a certain pedestal, sometimes romanticizing what they do and why they do it. But sometimes, what they've been through affects them in terrible ways, leading otherwise good people who've served their country to make terrible decisions. We may not like thinking about it, some people would vehemently deny it, but it's an incredibly sad reality, more so for any friends and family of a soldier/veteran that crosses such a line. In a world of superheroes, most anyone in a cape is a soldier. How many times have we seen Superman or Batman or one of their peers remark how they've "never seen anything like" some horrific attack by a supervillain or some advanced technology in action? By echoing the tragic side of that in a well-known, beloved fictional character, King is possibly trying to make a statement about PTSD and what life-threatening combat can do to a person. If he'd created a new character to be the killer, he would not have achieved this, to say nothing of if it wouldn't have been telegraphed for most readers. He could've gone the Elseworlds route, but I don't know if DC remembers they have the imprint anymore. AND, the fact that the consequences would not have rippled through the main canon may've lessened the impact he probably would want. That's just me guessing, though. If any of it is accurate, I can understand why he did what he did. That, however, does not mean I agree with it in terms of...ahem...execution. |
|
|
|
Post by achilles on Apr 25, 2019 14:13:50 GMT
I REad it so you don't have to. I am 100% blaming this on dan didiot after he said he was going to fuck up wally west instead of nightwing at that con. Didn't King basically say this was all him, though? Rationally speaking, you could at most blame Didio for fostering an environment that leaves certain characters left in the cold or screwed up because he doesn't care about them. The only alternative is that Didio made the call, and ordered King to take the fall in advance to save face. I don't think much of Didio's spinal integrity, so tossing blame for his mistakes to someone else isn't out of the question, but King was in the CIA...no way some doughy executive twit is gonna intimidate him. Let's say that there will be no fake-out, no foreseeable retcon to repair this damage to Wally's character, and it was basically all King's idea. Going by what he's previously said about this story, I can kind of see his reasoning here. He wants this to make an impact, get people taking, even if it ruffles a few feathers. Americans tend to hold soldiers on a certain pedestal, sometimes romanticizing what they do and why they do it. But sometimes, what they've been through affects them in terrible ways, leading otherwise good people who've served their country to make terrible decisions. We may not like thinking about it, some people would vehemently deny it, but it's an incredibly sad reality, more so for any friends and family of a soldier/veteran that crosses such a line. In a world of superheroes, most anyone in a cape is a soldier. How many times have we seen Superman or Batman or one of their peers remark how they've "never seen anything like" some horrific attack by a supervillain or some advanced technology in action? By echoing the tragic side of that in a well-known, beloved fictional character, King is possibly trying to make a statement about PTSD and what life-threatening combat can do to a person. If he'd created a new character to be the killer, he would not have achieved this, to say nothing of if it wouldn't have been telegraphed for most readers. He could've gone the Elseworlds route, but I don't know if DC remembers they have the imprint anymore. AND, the fact that the consequences would not have rippled through the main canon may've lessened the impact he probably would want. That's just me guessing, though. If any of it is accurate, I can understand why he did what he did. That, however, does not mean I agree with it in terms of...ahem...execution. I would agree that Didio and Johns certainly fostered the environment where certain characters get dumped on while others are exalted perhaps beyond where they should. He probably didn't personally order this, though it isn't out of the question---but Didio almost certainly let it be known that certain characters were in play for basically anything, including stories that would render them unviable in their current roles. |
|
|
|
Post by SporkBot on Apr 25, 2019 14:50:00 GMT
I would agree that Didio and Johns certainly fostered the environment where certain characters get dumped on while others are exalted perhaps beyond where they should. He probably didn't personally order this, though it isn't out of the question---but Didio almost certainly let it be known that certain characters were in play for basically anything, including stories that would render them unviable in their current roles. Which is kind of why something like Watchmen works so well. Alan Moore wanted to use Charlton Comics characters, but DC wouldn't let him because they wanted to use them for stories down the line. They were actually looking ahead, whereas Didio probably doesn't look further than the next fiscal quarter. Even when there's a history of "heroes turning killer" attempts that were not well-received, they turn a blind eye to it. Perhaps if someone told King he couldn't make Wally or another fan-favorite the killer, he might've been able to achieve the same result with less outrage. Part of me wants to say "wait until the whole story is done before passing judgement", but I've had that blow up in my face way too many times, especially where DC is concerned. Of course, some readers aren't doing themselves or the fandom any favors by, apparently, sending King death threats. |
|
|
|
Post by achilles on Apr 25, 2019 15:11:16 GMT
I would agree that Didio and Johns certainly fostered the environment where certain characters get dumped on while others are exalted perhaps beyond where they should. He probably didn't personally order this, though it isn't out of the question---but Didio almost certainly let it be known that certain characters were in play for basically anything, including stories that would render them unviable in their current roles. Which is kind of why something like Watchmen works so well. Alan Moore wanted to use Charlton Comics characters, but DC wouldn't let him because they wanted to use them for stories down the line. They were actually looking ahead, whereas Didio probably doesn't look further than the next fiscal quarter. Even when there's a history of "heroes turning killer" attempts that were not well-received, they turn a blind eye to it. Perhaps if someone told King he couldn't make Wally or another fan-favorite the killer, he might've been able to achieve the same result with less outrage. Part of me wants to say "wait until the whole story is done before passing judgement", but I've had that blow up in my face way too many times, especially where DC is concerned. Of course, some readers aren't doing themselves or the fandom any favors by, apparently, sending King death threats. What can I say, the internet can be a remarkably stupid and dangerous place; there's no call for any sort of threats over a frickin comic book. That said, if King didn't know this was coming, he's...at best not very perceptive. Really this is another symptom IMO of the very pros who make up the business hating and being embarrassed by it, and thus trying to write "important" or "literate" comics, rather than simply trying to tell good and fun stories that people want to buy and read. I might add that when people TRY to write "important" things, they almost never succeed in making them any good, or indeed memorable in any way. I seriously doubt for example that in ten years time anyone will even remember this one, though in ten year's time they might just about have closed in on releasing Doomsday Clock#10. But in ten year's time people will still read and enjoy Darwyn Cooke's Justice League: New Frontier, because Cooke didn't set out to tell an "important" story, just rather a fun one based on the Silver Age he enjoyed as a kid. As a result it is miles ahead of the Heroes in Crisis or Amazon Attacks, (Bees, my God!) of the world, (and I'm still waiting to find out what the living hell that last one was about). |
|
|
|
Post by noctournem on Apr 25, 2019 18:21:47 GMT
I REad it so you don't have to. I am 100% blaming this on dan didiot after he said he was going to fuck up wally west instead of nightwing at that con. Didn't King basically say this was all him, though? Rationally speaking, you could at most blame Didio for fostering an environment that leaves certain characters left in the cold or screwed up because he doesn't care about them. The only alternative is that Didio made the call, and ordered King to take the fall in advance to save face. I don't think much of Didio's spinal integrity, so tossing blame for his mistakes to someone else isn't out of the question, but King was in the CIA...no way some doughy executive twit is gonna intimidate him. Let's say that there will be no fake-out, no foreseeable retcon to repair this damage to Wally's character, and it was basically all King's idea. Going by what he's previously said about this story, I can kind of see his reasoning here. He wants this to make an impact, get people taking, even if it ruffles a few feathers. Americans tend to hold soldiers on a certain pedestal, sometimes romanticizing what they do and why they do it. But sometimes, what they've been through affects them in terrible ways, leading otherwise good people who've served their country to make terrible decisions. We may not like thinking about it, some people would vehemently deny it, but it's an incredibly sad reality, more so for any friends and family of a soldier/veteran that crosses such a line. In a world of superheroes, most anyone in a cape is a soldier. How many times have we seen Superman or Batman or one of their peers remark how they've "never seen anything like" some horrific attack by a supervillain or some advanced technology in action? By echoing the tragic side of that in a well-known, beloved fictional character, King is possibly trying to make a statement about PTSD and what life-threatening combat can do to a person. If he'd created a new character to be the killer, he would not have achieved this, to say nothing of if it wouldn't have been telegraphed for most readers. He could've gone the Elseworlds route, but I don't know if DC remembers they have the imprint anymore. AND, the fact that the consequences would not have rippled through the main canon may've lessened the impact he probably would want. That's just me guessing, though. If any of it is accurate, I can understand why he did what he did. That, however, does not mean I agree with it in terms of...ahem...execution. I hear you, but if I wanted my beloved character back from the dead pet sematary style I'd read marvel. I will finish this though. |
|
|
|
Post by achilles on Apr 25, 2019 18:56:51 GMT
There is one good thing about this though...Power Girl is still sitting this one out. Nice to know King didn't get to Wally West her too.  |
|
|
|
Post by achilles on Apr 25, 2019 19:01:55 GMT
I REad it so you don't have to. I am 100% blaming this on dan didiot after he said he was going to fuck up wally west instead of nightwing at that con. Didn't King basically say this was all him, though? Rationally speaking, you could at most blame Didio for fostering an environment that leaves certain characters left in the cold or screwed up because he doesn't care about them. The only alternative is that Didio made the call, and ordered King to take the fall in advance to save face. I don't think much of Didio's spinal integrity, so tossing blame for his mistakes to someone else isn't out of the question, but King was in the CIA...no way some doughy executive twit is gonna intimidate him. Let's say that there will be no fake-out, no foreseeable retcon to repair this damage to Wally's character, and it was basically all King's idea. Going by what he's previously said about this story, I can kind of see his reasoning here. He wants this to make an impact, get people taking, even if it ruffles a few feathers. Americans tend to hold soldiers on a certain pedestal, sometimes romanticizing what they do and why they do it. But sometimes, what they've been through affects them in terrible ways, leading otherwise good people who've served their country to make terrible decisions. We may not like thinking about it, some people would vehemently deny it, but it's an incredibly sad reality, more so for any friends and family of a soldier/veteran that crosses such a line. In a world of superheroes, most anyone in a cape is a soldier. How many times have we seen Superman or Batman or one of their peers remark how they've " never seen anything like" some horrific attack by a supervillain or some advanced technology in action? By echoing the tragic side of that in a well-known, beloved fictional character, King is possibly trying to make a statement about PTSD and what life-threatening combat can do to a person. If he'd created a new character to be the killer, he would not have achieved this, to say nothing of if it wouldn't have been telegraphed for most readers. He could've gone the Elseworlds route, but I don't know if DC remembers they have the imprint anymore. AND, the fact that the consequences would not have rippled through the main canon may've lessened the impact he probably would want. That's just me guessing, though. If any of it is accurate, I can understand why he did what he did. That, however, does not mean I agree with it in terms of...ahem...execution. Just saw something like that. Okay, totally unlike that in every way. It featured an amnesiac Ted Kord commenting on a Godzilla sized G'Nort to the effect that it was unusual even for them. Of course "I Can't Believe It's Not The Justice League" MIGHT be a tad different comic book than this one. |
|
|
|
Post by Zechs on Apr 25, 2019 20:07:32 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by noctournem on Apr 25, 2019 20:27:37 GMT
Can we read this one? the copy I read was a little bit rough |
|
|
|
Post by sdsichero on Apr 25, 2019 22:25:23 GMT
There is one good thing about this though...Power Girl is still sitting this one out. Nice to know King didn't get to Wally West her too. Twist in final issue: It was Power Girl all along. |
|
|
|
Post by achilles on Apr 25, 2019 22:44:14 GMT
There is one good thing about this though...Power Girl is still sitting this one out. Nice to know King didn't get to Wally West her too. Twist in final issue: It was Power Girl all along. In the pantry, with the butler. Damn, now we know why Alfred would take that job, despite all that catering to some neurotic dude with "Martha" issues. |
|
|
|
Post by achilles on Apr 25, 2019 23:04:13 GMT
This whole thing violates a basic rule; don't poop where you eat. In this case, DC again is doing everything it can to render a valuable IP valueless, or at least damaged. In a continuing fictional universe populated by characters you own and want to use again and again, serially, in different media you do NOT take those characters and completely change them so that fans no longer like them.
At least not if you're sane. That does indeed entail some limitations, but that's what new characters and/or different universes are for. But any real, lasting changes to your ongoing characters had better be very well considered.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrankERottweiler on Apr 26, 2019 3:29:11 GMT
Watching DC is like watching a train wreck in slow motion on a loop with different colored filters.
Because, by God, they are going to keep making the same mistakes again and again with different characters.
Geoff Johns can be a good writer, and I've heard that King can be a good writer, too, but they both have almost no respect for any characters who aren't their pet characters. I've gone back and read some of my JSA trade run, and the series starts to go downhill once Johns is on it by himself. As for King, I jumped the DC ship long before he came aboard.
As Zechs said in the review, Death of Superman was a grim end to the character, but everyone knew he was coming back. The Reign of the Supermen was bleak, turning a minor character into a major villain, but in the end the good guys won, and there was hope again. DC seems to have forgotten that their heroes used to inspire hope in their readers. They had flaws, but they still always fell back on their better nature. Ever since Identity Crisis tried to darken the DC universe--something that really, really didn't need to happen--they've just been digging deeper and deeper. A lot of people were hopeful with Rebirth, but I've become cynical enough to sit back and wait for something like this to happen again.
And again.
|
|
|
|
Post by mothman on Apr 26, 2019 5:21:23 GMT
As kids say on the internet #FireTomKing #FireDiDio
|
|
