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Post by SporkBot on Apr 26, 2019 13:39:49 GMT
Watching DC is like watching a train wreck in slow motion on a loop with different colored filters. Because, by God, they are going to keep making the same mistakes again and again with different characters. ... Ever since Identity Crisis tried to darken the DC universe--something that really, really didn't need to happen--they've just been digging deeper and deeper. A lot of people were hopeful with Rebirth, but I've become cynical enough to sit back and wait for something like this to happen again. And again. Gee, I wonder if there's some kind of common denominator between Identity Crisis and now...it couldn't POSSIBLY be the EIC that came on board the year that story was printed and demanded "we need a rape"...could it?! Even though Rebirth was claimed to be this apology for the Flashpoint nonsense, and they'd integrate more pre52 elements back into their characters and their world (which was truer of some characters than others, and just not at all true for one pair I could name), even after people received this alleged return to form well, I anticipated DC, with the same ineffectual leadership, would falter yet again. When it seemed they learned their lesson and brought back a fan-favorite character as "proof" of their new direction...they do this. Now, unlike when Hal Jordan turned evil to make way for Kyle Rayner, you could argue King is trying to get a deeper message across, and to that degree, I can respect him for trying. However, Didio, Lee...ANYONE who knew what he had planned had to know this wasn't going to go over well, even if they tried explaining from the start that the killings were, so I've heard, accidental (stark contrasts to other times heroes snapped and killed people, or were outright turned evil). If King wanted the perpetrator to be Barry Allen, Hal, Diana, or Barbara Gordon, he would've been stopped and told to find another character, if they didn't reject his story altogether. It's crap like this that continues to bewilder me why DC enjoys such fervent commitment to their brand despite know-nothing leadership. The very people steering the ship are the ones that either keep shooting holes into, or letting others shoot their own holes, in their own way, in decks they don't think are important. |
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Post by achilles on Apr 26, 2019 14:50:55 GMT
Watching DC is like watching a train wreck in slow motion on a loop with different colored filters. Because, by God, they are going to keep making the same mistakes again and again with different characters. ... Ever since Identity Crisis tried to darken the DC universe--something that really, really didn't need to happen--they've just been digging deeper and deeper. A lot of people were hopeful with Rebirth, but I've become cynical enough to sit back and wait for something like this to happen again. And again. Gee, I wonder if there's some kind of common denominator between Identity Crisis and now...it couldn't POSSIBLY be the EIC that came on board the year that story was printed and demanded "we need a rape"...could it?! Even though Rebirth was claimed to be this apology for the Flashpoint nonsense, and they'd integrate more pre52 elements back into their characters and their world (which was truer of some characters than others, and just not at all true for one pair I could name), even after people received this alleged return to form well, I anticipated DC, with the same ineffectual leadership, would falter yet again. When it seemed they learned their lesson and brought back a fan-favorite character as "proof" of their new direction...they do this. Now, unlike when Hal Jordan turned evil to make way for Kyle Rayner, you could argue King is trying to get a deeper message across, and to that degree, I can respect him for trying. However, Didio, Lee...ANYONE who knew what he had planned had to know this wasn't going to go over well, even if they tried explaining from the start that the killings were, so I've heard, accidental (stark contrasts to other times heroes snapped and killed people, or were outright turned evil). If King wanted the perpetrator to be Barry Allen, Hal, Diana, or Barbara Gordon, he would've been stopped and told to find another character, if they didn't reject his story altogether. It's crap like this that continues to bewilder me why DC enjoys such fervent commitment to their brand despite know-nothing leadership. The very people steering the ship are the ones that either keep shooting holes into, or letting others shoot their own holes, in their own way, in decks they don't think are important. It's just as well he's evidently never heard of Power Girl...they definitely would have said yes to using her that way. |
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Post by sdsichero on Apr 26, 2019 16:43:41 GMT
It's just as well he's evidently never heard of Power Girl...they definitely would have said yes to using her that way. I'll forward your recommendation his way! |
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Post by noctournem on Apr 26, 2019 16:55:03 GMT
Watching DC is like watching a train wreck in slow motion on a loop with different colored filters. Because, by God, they are going to keep making the same mistakes again and again with different characters. ... Ever since Identity Crisis tried to darken the DC universe--something that really, really didn't need to happen--they've just been digging deeper and deeper. A lot of people were hopeful with Rebirth, but I've become cynical enough to sit back and wait for something like this to happen again. And again. Gee, I wonder if there's some kind of common denominator between Identity Crisis and now...it couldn't POSSIBLY be the EIC that came on board the year that story was printed and demanded "we need a rape"...could it?! Even though Rebirth was claimed to be this apology for the Flashpoint nonsense, and they'd integrate more pre52 elements back into their characters and their world (which was truer of some characters than others, and just not at all true for one pair I could name), even after people received this alleged return to form well, I anticipated DC, with the same ineffectual leadership, would falter yet again. When it seemed they learned their lesson and brought back a fan-favorite character as "proof" of their new direction...they do this. Now, unlike when Hal Jordan turned evil to make way for Kyle Rayner, you could argue King is trying to get a deeper message across, and to that degree, I can respect him for trying. However, Didio, Lee...ANYONE who knew what he had planned had to know this wasn't going to go over well, even if they tried explaining from the start that the killings were, so I've heard, accidental (stark contrasts to other times heroes snapped and killed people, or were outright turned evil). If King wanted the perpetrator to be Barry Allen, Hal, Diana, or Barbara Gordon, he would've been stopped and told to find another character, if they didn't reject his story altogether. It's crap like this that continues to bewilder me why DC enjoys such fervent commitment to their brand despite know-nothing leadership. The very people steering the ship are the ones that either keep shooting holes into, or letting others shoot their own holes, in their own way, in decks they don't think are important. I just read a little more selectively, it works out in the long run. Good events are few and far between anyways. |
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Post by SporkBot on Apr 26, 2019 16:59:40 GMT
Thinking more about this whole deal, I figured the one way to redeem this decision is for Wally to run back in time, stop himself from killing those people, and...I dunno, his past and future selves merge, so he retains the memory of the fatal outcome. That way, he saved the people he killed, but lives with the guilt of what he'd done, and that drives him forward. Or would that undercut the kind of story King is going with? After all, real-life people can't jog their way through time and undo their mistakes. I guess that'll depend on how many more issues are left in this series.
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Post by noctournem on Apr 26, 2019 17:54:53 GMT
Thinking more about this whole deal, I figured the one way to redeem this decision is for Wally to run back in time, stop himself from killing those people, and...I dunno, his past and future selves merge, so he retains the memory of the fatal outcome. That way, he saved the people he killed, but lives with the guilt of what he'd done, and that drives him forward. Or would that undercut the kind of story King is going with? After all, real-life people can't jog their way through time and undo their mistakes. I guess that'll depend on how many more issues are left in this series. They got one more issue. We'll see. Well, not Zechs, he'll bee too drunk. |
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Post by achilles on Apr 26, 2019 18:32:52 GMT
It's just as well he's evidently never heard of Power Girl...they definitely would have said yes to using her that way. I'll forward your recommendation his way!  |
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Post by Zechs on Apr 26, 2019 21:03:03 GMT
Thinking more about this whole deal, I figured the one way to redeem this decision is for Wally to run back in time, stop himself from killing those people, and...I dunno, his past and future selves merge, so he retains the memory of the fatal outcome. That way, he saved the people he killed, but lives with the guilt of what he'd done, and that drives him forward. Or would that undercut the kind of story King is going with? After all, real-life people can't jog their way through time and undo their mistakes. I guess that'll depend on how many more issues are left in this series. They got one more issue. We'll see. Well, not Zechs, he'll bee too drunk.  |
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Post by Grayson on Apr 27, 2019 17:00:51 GMT
I want to have faith in King. Mister Miracle alone has afforded him that, at least in my opinion. It's just really hard to keep an open mind about this when it has been so poorly telegraphed from the start and there is heretofore no silver lining in sight. Still better than Mick Sprangler trying to turn Cap into a Nazi for Secret Empire though.  |
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Post by Zechs on May 2, 2019 17:20:10 GMT
At least we got Cap back after the clusterfuck of that story with him kicking he hell out of NaziCap. How the hell are they gonna explain Wally "accidentally" murdering all those heroes/villains?
"IT WAS ME WALLY!! I MADE YOU A BETTER HERO!!"
IT'S TOO EASY!!
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Post by SporkBot on May 3, 2019 1:16:45 GMT
If it's not a simulation like I saw some suggest in after the first couple issues, then there's always time-travel. But that risks undercutting the message King is trying to convey (which I'm sure Wally fans aren't going to cry in the beer over). The question is, will another writer undo Wally's crimes down the line, or will King do so in the final issue, possibly in a way that preserves his intentions?
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Post by achilles on May 3, 2019 2:45:47 GMT
If it's not a simulation like I saw some suggest in after the first couple issues, then there's always time-travel. But that risks undercutting the message King is trying to convey (which I'm sure Wally fans aren't going to cry in the beer over). The question is, will another writer undo Wally's crimes down the line, or will King do so in the final issue, possibly in a way that preserves his intentions? How? Anything they do will be cheap. Fear bug! A wizard made him do it! Alternate universe Wally! Any could undo that, but would any really erase the bad taste? And honestly, this was a story that never should have been told. King needs to stop being embarrassed by his job, or get a new one. Comic books don't need to be "literary" or tell "important" stories like King was going on about. They just need to tell "good" stories, and be true to the characters and not ruin them for continued use. |
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Post by SporkBot on May 3, 2019 13:53:55 GMT
A writer doesn't necessarily get to choose what stories they feel are important. How they convey them, yes, absolutely, but I can understand how this can be personal to him. I agree stories should be good rather than whatever some marketing shill claims will by "hype-worthy", and some writers should never be anywhere near certain characters, especially when it comes to affecting them long term.
That said, if anyone can retcon Wally back to "not a killer" while preserving the impact of the story, it should be King. I'm not saying he's that good (I'm not that familiar with his work beyond one recommended story), I'm saying that, as a requirement, it should be him. Crap like this should always have an "out" ready in advance, whether it's a "big character death" or something. I know it seems like it'd show the industry is "afraid to take risks", but the risks they tend to take are either incredibly stupid, or tend to involve characters readers enjoy, but the higher-ups don't care about (while the ones the DO care about remain protected).
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